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Mun Talbóid Loading...
genitive: Mhun Talbóid
validated name
(Irish)
Mount Talbot Loading...
(English)
Other names
Béal an Átha
genitive: Bhéal an Átha
historical name
(Irish)
Béal an Átha Uí Cheallaigh
genitive: Bhéal an Átha Uí Cheallaigh
historical name
(Irish)
Glossary
áth ford
béal opening, approach, mouth
Explanatory note
  • Gaeilge

    Mun Talbóid — Gaelú dúchasach ar Mount Talbot

    Fuair an áit seo ainm ó na Talbóidigh a fuair tailte anseo sa 17ú haois.

    Le himeacht aimsire ghlac an t-ainm nua Mount Talbot ionad sheanainm an bhaile fearainn inar tógadh an teach mór (1609 ‘Cloningly’, 1612 ‘Clonenglie’, 1632 ‘CloneInglin’, 1659 ‘Clooneingly’, 1685 ‘Clon-ingly’, 1712 ‘Clooningly’, srl.) agus, thairis sin, seanainm an tsráidbhaile ag an mbealach trasna abhainn na Suca .i. Béal an Átha “the approach to the ford” (1797 ‘go Baile an Ath’’, 1837 ‘Ancient name Béal an átha’), áit a fuair ainm ón áth darbh ainm Áth an Mhathshluaigh “the ford of the congregation, cavalry” (1837 ‘Ath an Malthuch’, ‘Ath an Molhooey’ — mathshlua (< mathshluagh), gin. mathshlua(igh) atá sa cháilitheoir, agus is aischruthú é an míniú áitiúil ‘Mollhoogh, horseman’ mar a bheadh *mathshluach ann).

    Tá an fhoirm ‘Cluain na gCloidhe’ a mhol Seosamh Laoide in Post-Seanchas (1905) mícheart ar fad. Níl de bhunús leis ach aon litriú truaillithe amháin, ‘Clonigley’, atá le fáil ar chóip lochtach de sheanmhapa. Ar an drochuair ghlac údaráis an Phoist leis an bhfoirm Ghaeilge úd i mblianta beaga an tSaorstáit agus ghreamaigh sé ina dhiaidh sin. Ná níl aon bhunús le ‘Cluain na Gaoithe’, foirm a mhol scoláire áitiúil in Éigse 7 (1955).

    Is amhlaidh a bhain lucht Ghaeilge na háite úsáid as foirm ghaelaithe den logainm Béarla ón 18ú haois i leith: tá ‘Mun Talabóid’ le fáil i ndán a scríobh file as Ros Comáin i 1797, agus is í an fhoirm cheannann chéanna a taifeadadh ó shean-Ghaeilgeoirí dúchasacha sa cheantar i 1958 (/munˈtɑləboːdʹ/) — d’admhaigh Laoide féin gurb in é an t-ainm Gaeilge a bhí ‘dá úsáid i gcaint’ in Post-Seanchas (1911). (Tabhair faoi deara gur fíor-logainm Gaeilge é seo cé gur fhorbair sé ón logainm Béarla. Cf. an gaelú dúchasach céanna ar mount-ainmneacha eile ar nós 1642c.garasdon … Muinseói’ Ó Mealláin = Mountjoy/Muinseo (#135098) i dTír Eoghain; 1840 ‘Mun Taileuirpl:AL = Mountaylor (#47651) i dTiobraid Árann; 1960c. /ˌmʷinʹˈʃeːrləs/ ag cainteoirí dúchais Ghleann Cholm Cille = Mountcharles (#1416621) i nDún na nGall.)

    Moladh Mun Talbóid mar ainm oifigiúil ar an mbaile poist i 1960 agus tá sé in úsáid go hoifigiúil ó 1969 i leith. (Dúnadh an phostoifig ag tús an 21ú haois.)

    Achoimre: níl bunús dá laghad leis an bhfoirm ‘Cluain na gCloidhe/na gClaidhe’ atá le feiscint ar na seanchomharthaí. Buille faoi thuairim é seo a cuireadh i gcló i 1905 mar iarracht ar Ghaeilge a chur ar na tagairtí stairiúla don bhaile fearainn stairiúil (a bhfuil na foirmeacha stairiúla níos giorra do Cluain Ainglí). Ní hionann an seanbhaile fearainn seo agus an baile, áfach, agus i 1911 ghéill an té a chum an t-ainm ‘Cluain na gCloidhe’ gurbh amhlaidh a ghlaoigh Gaeilgeoirí na háite ‘Móin Talbóid’ ar Mount Talbot. An t-ainm ceannann céanna, ‘Mun Talabóid’, a bhí in úsáid ag na sean-Ghaeilgeoirí fíordheireanacha sa taobh seo tíre i 1958. Is gaelú dúchasach é an Mun Talbóid seo ar ainm an bhaile nua, agus is fíor-logainm Gaeilge ann féin é. Tá fianaise air sa Ghaeilge chomh fada siar leis an 18ú haois. Ar an drochuair ghlac údaráis an phoist leis an leagan neamhstairiúil ‘Cluain na gCloidhe’ i mblianta beaga an Stáit agus ghreamaigh sé ó shin.

    (Díol spéise an méid seo a leanas a scríobhadh ar chlúdach an chunasaigh bhéaloideasa a bhailigh daltaí na Scoile Náisiúnta i Mun Talbóid le haghaidh Bhailiúchán na Scol i 1938: "Co: Roscomáin, Bar: Áth Luain, Par: Tisrara, Scoil: Mount Talbot, Oide: M. Ó Héimhthigh". Níl aon tagairt don ainm ‘Cluain na gCloidhe’ nó a leithéid sna scéalta laistigh.)

    [21/9/2020]

  • English

    Mun Talbóid — native gaelicization of Mount Talbot

    This place was named after the Talbot family who received land here in the seventeenth century.

    The new name Mount Talbot gradually took the place of the historical townland in which the big house was built (1609 ‘Cloningly’, 1612 ‘Clonenglie’, 1632 ‘CloneInglin’, 1659 ‘Clooneingly’, 1685 ‘Clon-ingly’, 1712 ‘Clooningly’, etc., pointing to Cluain *Ainglí or similar). It also replaced the old name of the village at the crossing over the Suck, Béal an Átha “the approach to the ford” (1797 ‘go Baile an Ath’’, 1837 ‘Ancient name Béal an átha’), which itself was named after the ford called Áth an Mhathshluaigh “the ford of the congregation, cavalry” (1837 ‘Ath an Malthuch’, ‘Ath an Molhooey’ — the qualifying element is the obscure word mathshlua (< mathshluagh), gen. mathshlua(igh); the local explanation ‘Mollhoogh, horseman’ is a back-formation to an unattested *mathshluach).

    The form ‘Cluain na gCloidhe’ which Seosamh Laoide proposed as the Irish name of the village in Post-Seanchas (1905) is undoubtedly incorrect. Its only basis is ‘Clonigley’, a corrupt spelling of the name of the historical townland — which was not the name of the village at the river-crossing — found on an error-strewn copy of an old map. This corrupt form is clearly inconsistent with all the other forms of that name given above. Another form recommended by a local scholar in Éigse 7 (1955), namely ‘Cluain na Gaoithe’, is similarly without foundation.

    In fact, the strongly Irish-speaking community here had been using a gaelicized version of the new English name (first attested in 1712) since the eighteenth century: ‘Mun Talabóid’ is found in a poem written by a Roscommon native in 1797 (which states the old name of the village was Béal an Átha — the same information given by the elderly locals interviewed by John O'Donovan in 1837). Precisely the same name was recorded from the last native speakers in this area in 1958 (/munˈtɑləboːdʹ/ .i. Mun Tal(a)bóid), and Seosamh Laoide himself, who had invented the name ‘Cluain na gCloidhe’, admitted that ‘Móin Talbóid’ was the name “in use in speech” (‘dá úsáid i gcaint’) among Irish speakers in the village in Post-Seanchas (1911).

    (It is important to note that this form is an authentic Irish placename in its own right, even though it is derived from the English name. Compare similar natural gaelicizations of other mount-names such as 1642c.garasdon … Muinseói’ Ó Mealláin = Mountjoy/Muinseo (#135098) in Tyrone; 1840 ‘Mun Taileuirpl:AL = Mountaylor (#47651) in Tipperary; 1960c. /ˌmʷinʹˈʃeːrləs/, the name native speakers from Gleann Cholm Cille called Mountcharles (#1416621) in Donegal.)

    On this evidence Mun Talbóid was proposed as the official Irish name of the postal town in 1960. (The post office was closed early this century.)

    Summary:
    The form ‘Cluain na gCloidhe’ is without any foundation. It was a mere guess published in 1905 in an attempt to give Irish form to one corrupt spelling of the name of the historical townland in which Mount Talbot demesne was built. In 1911 even the author who had invented the unhistorical Irish form ‘Cluain na gCloidhe’ admitted that the local Irish speakers actually called Mount Talbot ‘Móin Talbóid’ in Irish. This same form of the name was taken down from the mouths of the very last old native Irish speakers of this area in 1958, who all pronounced it ‘Mun Talabóid’.

    Mun Talbóid, despite its unusual appearance, is a genuine Irish placename in its own right. It is a natural gaelicization of the new English name introduced at the turn of the 18th century, when this area was almost entirely Irish-speaking. Crucially, the form of the name recorded from the last local Irish speakers in 1958 is identical to the form attested in an Irish-language poem from the end of the 18th century.

    The postal authorities, who had adopted Laoide's 1905 invention ‘Cluain na gCloidhe’ in the 1920s (despite Laoide's own clarification published in 1911 that this was not the name used by Irish speakers in the village), recognised the genuine Irish name Mun Talbóid as the official version in 1977. Unfortunately, the fabricated name ‘Cluain na gCloidhe’ had gained traction in the interim and can still be seen on signage in the area.

    (It is curious to note the details of Mount Talbot National School's return for the Schools Folklore Collection in 1938: "Co: Roscomáin, Bar: Áth Luain, Par: Tisrara, Scoil: Mount Talbot, Oide: M. Ó Héimhthigh". None of the folklore information contained therein contains any reference to ‘Cluain na gCloidhe’ or any similar name.)

    [21/9/2020]

Irish Grid

M 81 53

Properties

There is or was once a post office here.

Archival records
Permanent link
https://www.logainm.ie/1414415.aspx
Further information about this place
Folklore

Open data